Friday, July 11, 2014

Bonus Bets in the Wild, Wild, West ...

As we have discussed before, there are no craps laws or regulations in Las Vegas or Nevada so the Casino can make up or change at any time whatever craps rules they wish.  In fact, unlike most states where the Casino's license is owned by the taxpayers of the state and therefore a patron has the right to play as a resident or visitor of the state, this is not so in Nevada where the Casino has the right to refuse any bet.

And this is the case with the All, Tall, Small Bonus Craps Bets:

These are 3 separate proposition bets that first started at Sam's Town on Boulder Highway several years ago.  Then within the last few years these Bonus Bets spread like wild fire when Galaxy Gaming  purchased the rights and started marketing it across the United States.  You can get more information about these Bonus Bets from Procraps4u2 Link  or Link

However, most casinos do not properly allow you to bet these Craps Bonus bets: 

1.  Sam's Town will no longer let anyone re-bet these 3 proposition bets on any roller once a Come-out 7 is thrown,
whereas the normal rules of the game allow you to re-bet EACH of these proposition bets ANYTIME after a 7 or after they are made.
Sam's Town only allows you to bet the All, Tall, Small proposition bets once per roller -- do they allow only 1 Hard 8 bet per roller ?? -- is Sam's Town still in the gambling business ??

2.  Most other casinos, except Downtown Grand Las Vegas Casino will not allow you to re-bet either Half after they are made until after the ALL bet is made or until the next shooter.  Both the SMALL bet and the TALL bet are independent proposition bets and once made should be able to be re-bet regardless if the ALL bet has been made or not.  However, most of the casinos argue that the 3 bets are NOT independent and can not be re-bet until the ALL bet is completed or a 7 is rolled.

3.  NYNY and Luxor in Las Vegas also violate the basic rules of this game as they do not pay off any of the 3 proposition bets until after the roller had completed his full roll and a 7-out instead of immediately after a decision is made on each of these independent bets.

Are NYNY and Luxor guilty of cheating as defined by the Nevada Gaming Regulations: 
NRS 465.015  Definitions.  As used in this chapter:
1.  “Cheat” means to alter the elements of chance, method of selection or criteria which determine:
(a) The result of a game;
(b) The amount or frequency of payment in a game;
What other bet made in Las Vegas makes you have to wait for maybe an hour (if a long roll) until after a decision before you get paid ?  Do they wait so long to pay you after a Hard 8 is made or any other Proposition bet ?

Watch this video closely to see how they Payoff the bet as soon as it made on just the Tall side  .... and they also allow you to rebet the Tall side before the Small side is made AND before the next roller (pay particular attention near minute 2:40 of the video).

How can so many casinos and so many professional dealers get it wrong 24/7 for so long ?!   This is not much different than how the casinos can wrongly use unbalanced dice for so long with so many dice experts and dealers not knowing they do.

Many of the dealers said they did not know how to mark that Half was already made.
Seriously ?!  All you have to do is turn the Lammers on that side over differently or mark it some other way -- these professionals have several little tricks of keeping track of unlabeled Hop bets and what's on the table and in your pocket.

.... As for Sam's Town, we just quit playing there -- it is not craps consumer friendly, especially since they do not use balanced dice most of the time .... but with the other casinos, I have had numerous conversations with dealers and Boxmen as well as conversations with Galaxy Gaming and finally a possible resolution:

On July 9th, Galaxy Gaming in Las Vegas had an internal meeting to discuss this problem of the Casinos not properly playing their bet and concluded the following:
  • Discussed the mathematician's study that re-betting either Half does not change or increase the House advantage,
  • To Discuss with each casino that re-betting either the SMALL bet or TALL bet after it is made (but before the ALL bet is completed) is no different than re-betting the Hard 8 after it is made so that they can give this option to their customers if they wish in Nevada,
  • Galaxy Gaming is to develop new Lammers (Markers) for each casino that will say something like "Small Side Qualified" or "Tall Side Qualified"  to make it dealer friendly.

As a consumer you have a choice where to spend your entertainment dollar .... and now you may want to ask before you buy-in what the House rules are on re-betting these proposition Bonus Bets .... as you have a choice to walk across the street or fly to a different state.


  1. Good stuff Harley. Are you saying The Grand allows a player to get back on a small or tall once all numbers have been hit in that grouping? Also great point about the H8 example. Makes perfect sense in that an easy 8 wipes out H8 bets and players can come back. So why not a small or tall? Is it because possibly the house is scared in that it is now paying 35:1 on a bet as opposed to

  2. As opposed to 9:1 on a hard 6 or 8. I feel the house is scared in that maybe they feel the shooter if hit all small or tall now has a little edge in that #'s are rolling and he's likely to repeat those same numbers? Don't know. But that's exactly what I did at GN back on Mid April. Hit the tall than the small. Then the tall again then the small again. Then had just 4 # left for a 3rd time before dreaded 7 showed. What a rush that was bro. Wish you 2 were there. Need to team up again.

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